Professor Joshua Ogbonnaya, a founding member of Ohaneze Ndigbo; Dean of College of Medicine of three universities; a participant in three national conferences; and a member of the Presidential Task Force on Amnesty for Niger Delta militants, tells STEPHEN UKA how amnesty was used effectively to restore peace to the creeks and why it cannot be successfully applied to the current insurgency in the North
As a member of the 1994 / 1995 constitutional conference, can you review some of the landmark recommendations of that draft constitution, and how they could have saved Nigeria from the heat being generated by the 2015 election assuming they were implemented?
There are several landmark decisions we took at that conference but the one that I know would have saved Nigeria from political wrangling that is going on at the moment is the rotation of executive posts like that of the president, governor and local government chairman. All the decisions of that conference were captured in a draft constitution but because of the sudden death of the then Head of State, Gen. Sanny Abacha, it was not passed. Gen. Abdusalami came in and brought the 1999 constitution which did not reflect all the things we decided in the 1995 draft constitution.
The issue of rotation of executive post was unanimously agreed on in 1995. If it had been implemented the issue of whether or not President Goodluck Jonathan is eligible to re- contest would not have risen because Jonathan in the first place would not have succeeded the late President Musa Yar’Adua because we made a provision there that where a President is nominated by any political party, he has to provide three Vice Presidential candidates. One from his own geopolitical zone, and two from two different geopolitical zones so that if for any reason, the President resigns or dies in office, then the Vice- President from his zone will take over and complete his remaining tenure.
The issue of the autonomy of local government was also encapsulated in that draft constitution. In fact up till today, I still say it that the 1994/1995 draft constitution is the best constitution Nigeria never had.
Who do we blame for the non implementation of the recommendations of that draft constitution?
I think it was because of the untimely death of the then Head of State.
But somebody took over from him?
Yes, but for some reasons or the other, his successor failed to implement those beautiful recommendations.
You have participated in at least three constitutional conferences in Nigeria as a delegate. Could you compare them and tell why their recommendations are never implemented.
Yes I was there in 1994/1995, in 2005 by ex- President Olusegun Obasanjo where we finished and were summarily dismissed because we did not satisfy him in the ‘evil third term agenda’ , and then this last one in 2014. And I know the difference between all of them. In the case of 1994/1995 constitution there was an enabling law establishing it. We were told to take decisions that would be enacted as a constitution for the country. But in 2005 we were summarily dismissed for some reasons best known to Obasanjo. Then in 2014, there was also no enabling law setting it up but we have done our recommendations. We have tons of print work to show for it but up till now it has not been implemented.
But while the President was making his declaration for second term last week I heard him say he would still implement all the decisions of the conference that are possible for the executive to implement. At the time we were being inaugurated, he said he was in the process of agreeing with the National Assembly to get a provision that will make the recommendations of the conference through referendum or plebiscite, and we all hoped that was going to happen but unfortunately it never happened.
So, who do we blame?
Certainly the National Assembly because the members politicized the good intentions of the President.
Are you still very optimistic that the recommendations of the conference will see the light of day?
I am not confident that anything we decided in the last conference might be implemented. This is because so many things had been discussed and recommended in this country, yet none of them had been implemented. So, I am afraid this one may also go the way of previous conferences in the country, unless Jonathan wins a second term, then he will have four years to be able and try and get the national assembly to pass some of them into law. The issue of implementing it in this current term is ruled out.
You were a member of the Presidential Task force on the Niger Delta which brought about the amnesty programme for the ex- Niger Delta militants. How were you able to succeed?
I must tell you it was a very stressful period for us members of the panel because we had to go to the creeks where we saw the militants in their real domain. It was not a very pleasurable trip but we had no option. But we were happy because the militants gave us audience and conducted us through the various areas to see for ourselves their agitations. It was not like the present Boko Haram whose grievances I don’t even know up till now. I am sure if you ask the President he also does not know unless probably they want to Islamise Nigeria.
So, we went and saw degradation and despoliation of their land. And when you see the sorry state of the place that produces the wealth of the country, you weep for them. If you see how denied and unrecompensed they are, you will pity them. Even the devastations caused by vandals were horrible. So, we were able to establish that the main reason for their agitation was due to the gross neglect of their environment by the Federal Government.
How was your committee able to succeed?
We were convinced about the seriousness and of course the genuineness of their agitations which we noted were not as a result of inordinate ambition but injustice. They wanted the country to right the wrong perpetuated on them, so we were fully convinced that they had a point. We saw the poor quality of life in that region and we made our recommendations that they had to be given a sense of belonging. So amnesty was granted to them. But using the word amnesty was perhaps because they took up arms against the nation, otherwise what the Federal Government did was what it was supposed to have done long time ago. It was all about correcting the decades of neglect suffered by the region.
The late President, Yar’ Ardua saw reason in our recommendations and implemented them, and today there is peace in that region of the country.
Do you see the amnesty magic as a viable option to quell the current insurgency in the Northern region?
We had insurgency before in Zakibiam when Obasanjo was President and he drafted the army to quell it and that stopped. But Jonathan had no military background. Then the issue is what has our military been doing? When Gen. Azubuike Ihejirika was the Chief of Army Staff, the insurgency was not as high as it is today but I don’t know why they removed him. But since they removed him, the thing has gone from bad to worse. The thinking in the international community is that we did not handle Boko Haram with the iron hand it deserved at the initial stage. If we had taken a rapid and stringent military action at that time, we would have probably reduced insurgency in the North East. Sometimes, one begins to wonder whether the kidnapped Chibok school girls were real or not.
What do you think should be done now to contain the insurgency?
This is a pure case of rebellion. What happened when Biafra attempted to break away? They were invaded. Weren’t they? Is Boko Haram more fortified than the whole federation of Nigeria? Some say if full military action is taken in the affected areas there might be casualties among the innocent ones or civilians but what about when Biafra land was invaded? Were there not civilian casualties? Was a whole generation not wiped away, and almost genocides being committed?
Are you recommending full military action?
Yes, full military action because Boko Haram has rejected the offer for negotiation, and nobody knows their agitation or agenda if not to Islamise Nigeria which is not possible and justifiable. Besides, they keep killing people like fowls every day.
Can we say the President is treating Boko Haram with kids glove?
I will not say he is treating it with kids glove. He is not military.
But he is the Commander in Chief?
Yes he is but he is not military. Obasanjo took military action because he had military background.
Should we then look for somebody with military background to replace him as President?
I am not suggesting that because we are now in civilian administration. I think he ought to have been properly advised by the military.
Have you entirely ruled out the option of amnesty as solution to insurgency in the North?
No, I am not ruling out amnesty option but we have to know first, the grounds for the rebellion. What are the grievances of these rebels? What is it that they really want? If you don’t know what they want and they don’t want to tell you how can you have an agreement.
They said they wanted total the Islamisation of Nigeria.
It can never be possible. You don’t force your religion on another person. You need to convince the person first on why you think your religion is good . Conversion is not by throwing bombs around.
What is your take on the refusal by some countries to sell arms to Nigeria in the military campaign against insurgency?
I still don’t understand what their reasons are because if we are fighting international terrorism and you find that Nigeria is not properly equipped to fight this war, and you are in the position to sell arms to us but refuse to do so, you are certainly not a friend of Nigeria.
Then what lessons can Nigeria draw from the attitudes of these ‘unfriendly nations’? Should it be a challenge to float our own arms factories?
Where do the terrorists get their own arms? From somewhere. They are getting it probably with our own money. So, it is not a question of setting up arms factory. It is a matter of smuggling in arms just as the terrorists are doing.
As an elder statesman, advise Nigeria on how best to end insurgency in the country?
First of all, find out what their grievances are. I find it difficult to believe that they have no grievances other than to Islamise the country. Mohamed tried it when they invaded Europe but after all those wars they were beaten back. Today the whole of Europe are not Muslims. They ( Muslims) are trying to suppress Israel but it has never been possible for them. Do they want to make me, a Knight of my Church, a Muslim? That is impossible. After finding out their motive, then educate them that what they are trying to do is morally and religiously wrong, and if they refuse to give up , then re-arm and face them with the same intensity of warfare.
Sometime ago when your friend, Professor Ango Abdulahim of the Northern Elders Forum said President Jonathan had no moral right to seek re- election in 2015, you were quoted as saying that the North should wait till 2027 before angling for the Presidency again. Do you still stand by that position?
Yes I still believe that. The North has been producing the executive leaders of this country whether they are military or civilian. Out of our 54 years of independence, the North has ruled this country for about 39 years. We want power to go through the six geopolitical zones. After Jonathan ( South South), power should come to South East in 2019 because the zone had only tested power for six months during the military regime of late Aguiyi Ironsi. After eight years by South East in 2027, power will shift to the North . And this will engender peace and equity in the polity.
Do you consider Ndigbo prepared for the Presidency?
Yes they are fully prepared. You only need to tell them it is their turn. Igbos are prepared for the Presidency even now. All they need to hear is that it is their turn.
But are they united?
You don’t need unity . Is the North united? The North is not united. They will probably fight among themselves but eventually one person will come out.
Are you not worried about ethnic and religious colorations introduced into the Nigerian politics?
I don’t think that religion and tribe are the major problems we have in this country. The problem that we have is that there is a feeling by a particular region that they are more populated than others. They feel they should always be on top. They claim they have everything even oil and perhaps they are waiting until our own finishes before they start exploring their own. So, up till now we haven’t welded together as a nation. Yes to some extent, religion and ethnicity may have some influences over all these.
How would you describe the role of the opposition parties in Nigeria? Will you say they have been able to strengthen our democracy?
I don’t think they have been able to do much. The opposition is not even united. When you have opposition with different interests each one hoping to gain personally from the coming together of the opposition, their objective may not be realised. Right from the days of Azikiwe and Awolowo, the opposition has always been after its own selfish interest and it never fights for the good of the generality of the people. The same thing happens now. I have not seen any ideological difference between the opposition and those who are in power.
The current political structure in Nigeria is such that the country is gravitating towards two- party system. What does this portend to our evolving democracy?
We tried two-party system before during Gen. Ibrahim Babangida’s regime but it never worked. Two-party system is better to grow on its own and not enforced from above as Babangida attempted to do.
What is your take on the grumbling arising from the ward congresses of the ruling Peoples Democratic Party in many states?
I am worried that the PDP is breaking into bits because of the ward congresses which some said did not hold and some said it was manipulated. My worry is that if the ward congresses where you are to select people that will elect the flag bearers is not transparent, the system has a problem. When you don’t have a proper congress to do the primaries, there is a problem.
What is your assessment of the health sector in Nigeria?
I am not too happy about the state of infrastructure in our health sector. Our people still travel overseas for medical treatment. This causes us huge sums of money. We still go to India that was at the same category with us not long ago as less developed countries. Today, India has left us behind.
What do you think should be done to fix the health sector?
We should overhaul the infrastructure. First the erratic power supply in the country has to be improved upon. For instance, you cannot conduct surgery in the theatre without power nor can you keep a dead body in the mortuary without power. Also potable water has to be provided. Again genuine drugs have to be made available because we have a lot of fake drugs in the Nigerian market.
The fact remains that Nigeria still has a long way to go in the health sector. This is part of the reason that at 78, I am still running around to set up medical schools in various universities. Gregory University is the third medical school I am heading in the country. Something has to be done.
Even though we are not yet there, some states are gradually making efforts to improve on what they have. That is why I commend Abia State for instance for the giant strides by the current administration in the health sector. It has successfully established over 270 health care centres across the state. and I think this is quite commendable.
What about training of health workers?
We have risen from one teaching hospital to about 51 now but that is not enough for a population of about 170 million. And the number of doctors we have is far below what the WHO recommended. We don’t yet have a doctor to 100 people.
The health sector has continued to be bedeviled by incessant muscle flexing between medical and non- medical health workers ? Who is to blame and what is the lasting solution to this feud?
The Joint Health Workers Union pitches itself against the medical . The reason I don’t know because it does not happen in other countries. Everybody wants to be a consultant. That is all right but who are you consulting? But who is the Laboratory Technician or the X-ray Radiographer going to consult? Will they have a clinic in which they will see people and take a picture of them? All the same, I don’t see why people who have been working together will suddenly begin to have squabbles.
As a chieftain of Ohaneze, do you think the apex Igbo socio cultural organisation has been alive to its basic responsibility of championing the cause of Ndigbo ?
Ohaneze has been handicapped for a along time now.
Why, how?
There are divisions and attacks among the members, court actions arising from elections into the leadership of Ohaneze. Ohaneze is not as ebullient and outspoken as it should be. It should be more forceful and eager to speak on anything that has to do with Ndigbo. But I think Ohaneze will rise again but the only problem is that our people are more politically minded that they are not thinking about their cultural associations. But it is not peculiar to Ohaneze. Afenifere has the same problem. You don’t hear it very much again. When we were at the national conference, they had the problem of identification of who will speak for them.
If President Jonathan wins a re- election, what key areas would you want him to tackle with vigour especially as it affects South East zone?
Roads . I travel along these roads. Enugu to Port Harcourt is nothing to write home about. Enugu to Onitsha is worse. Owerri to Port Harcourt is the same. Umuhia- Ikot Ekpene federal highway is in a sorry state. It is the same story state in Ohafia- Arochukwu federal road which has been abandoned since three years ago shortly after it was awarded. Federal roads in South East are hellish. And you are telling us about East- West Road or Second Niger Bridge. Won’t people survive on the existing ones first.
Next is the rail ways. If the rails are fixed, it will reduce the traffic load on the roads. The power sector also has to be tackled. The President has done well in education as every state now has at least a federal tertiary institution. The President should also think more in applying federal character principle.
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